Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads

[phenomlab]

@JAC Agree with the damaging comment - I’d say to the point of toxic.

[JAC]

@phenomlab 100%!!

[Madchatthew]

@phenomlab yeah it is crazy how it is the same posters on facebook posting the same thing. I will be honest, I was probably one of them years back, but I stopped and realized that it was all just a waste of time. If facebook were to shutdown, there would be a lot of people needing to go to therapy I think.

I will have to check out session. I have looked at signal before. I will most likely choose between the two of them.

@JAC said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

@Madchatthew I have an account with family on it but haven’t used Facebook for a few years now, believe it or not I know it sounds drastic but I actually felt relieved once I stopped using it.

I will only use it if 100% necessary and hate everything to do with it, it’s very damaging.

Yes, I have felt more at peace by not going on facebook. It is really damaging and I am going to try and teach my daughter to stay off of it along with other social media because it is so damaging. It is crazy what people will say when they are behind a keyboard that they would never say to your face.

[phenomlab]

@Madchatthew said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

It is crazy what people will say when they are behind a keyboard that they would never say to your face.

Yes, commonly referred to as “keyboard warriors” who hide behind the anonymity that the internet offers. The general rule here should be that you are prepared to say whatever you’ve posted in person to their face. Most people aren’t brave enough to do that and choose to ruin people’s lives by posting whatever they feel like - and have no remorse or even basic consideration for how that might be received.

[Madchatthew]

@phenomlab said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

@Madchatthew said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

It is crazy what people will say when they are behind a keyboard that they would never say to your face.

Yes, commonly referred to as “keyboard warriors” who hide behind the anonymity that the internet offers. The general rule here should be that you are prepared to say whatever you’ve posted in person to their face. Most people aren’t brave enough to do that and choose to ruin people’s lives by posting whatever they feel like - and have no remorse or even basic consideration for how that might be received.

Ah yes the good ole fearless keyboard warriors, the bravest souls on the internet, until they are confronted in real life, which is hard to do because most of them are hiding in mom and dads basement, in the dark typing away their version of the social justice they need to push upon everyone else.

If someone is doing that kind of stuff and there is harm that comes to someone that is the victim, whether it be self or by others, then that keyboard warrior should be help responsible for that. Just because people are non-judgmental, show acceptance and open minded doesn’t mean that you have to agree with everything someone says. It is ok to disagree about things.

[phenomlab]

@Madchatthew said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

hiding in mom and dads basement, in the dark typing away their version of the social justice they need to push upon everyone else.

Love this analogy - sounds very much like the manifesto of Ted Kaczynski

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unabomber/manifesto.text.htm

@Madchatthew said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

Just because people are non-judgmental, show acceptance and open minded doesn’t mean that you have to agree with everything someone says. It is ok to disagree about things.

Yes, and as I often say to people - “you can think what you like, but knowing when NOT to say it is a skill in itself”. Essentially, keep your views and opinions to yourself, and don’t force your diatribe on others who likely won’t appreciate it anyway.

[Madchatthew]

@phenomlab said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

Love this analogy - sounds very much like the manifesto of Ted Kaczynski

Thanks, that is always what I think when someone goes off on someone else online trying to force everyone to think the same as them.

@phenomlab said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

Yes, and as I often say to people - “you can think what you like, but knowing when NOT to say it is a skill in itself”. Essentially, keep your views and opinions to yourself, and don’t force your diatribe on others who likely won’t appreciate it anyway.

Yes, 100%

[Madchatthew]

So kind of along the lines of not allowing big tech to steal your private data, I realized that I was using gboard on my phone. A light bulb flashed in my head, what a better way to get every keystroke that you use when type, searching, putting in passwords and all of that. So realizing that, I did some searching and reading some reddits and found HeliBoard, which does not do those things. I have F-Droid installed on my phone and installed it from there. So far I like it and it also has some of the features that gboard has.

I also decided to go with signal. And to get family to change to it isn’t so easy. My mom did, but my brother is taking his sweet ole time. He said he installed it but he hasn’t signed up for it yet. So we will see.

[phenomlab]

@Madchatthew said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

I realized that I was using gboard on my phone. A light bulb flashed in my head, what a better way to get every keystroke that you use when type, searching, putting in passwords and all of that.

Yes, that’s something I too realised a while back. The the same reason, if you use a custom keyboard with an iPhone, it always forces reversion to the stock keyboard as soon as you enter anything sensitive, such as passwords or payment details

@Madchatthew said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

And to get family to change to it isn’t so easy

That’s never easy. Good luck!

[Madchatthew]

@phenomlab Sneaky iphone. One of the many reasons why i don’t like iphone. To proprietery and they only want you to use their stuff.

Thanks, we will see if they do. They don’t seem to care about that stuff and are like whatever, so we will see.

[phenomlab]

@Madchatthew said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

Sneaky iphone. One of the many reasons why i don’t like iphone. To proprietery and they only want you to use their stuff.

Whilst I do see the benefit from the security angle, I think the choice of keyboard should be a user based one. Yes, of course, display a warning - an icon that shows more detail when tapped, and offers you a choice, but forcing the change with zero choice is a bridge too far in my view.

[Madchatthew]

@phenomlab What keyboard do you use on your current phone right now?

[phenomlab]

@Madchatthew I’m using the stock Samsung keyboard from OneUI

[Madchatthew]

@phenomlab Right on! I think I am liking the keyboard I mentioned above. Don’t like the look of it when you turn the phone sideways thought, but I have to look and see if there is a way to change that when you turn the phone sideways.

[phenomlab]

@Madchatthew I honestly don’t use the phone sideways so no issue as such for me

[JAC]

@Madchatthew said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

I also decided to go with signal. And to get family to change to it isn’t so easy. My mom did, but my brother is taking his sweet ole time. He said he installed it but he hasn’t signed up for it yet. So we will see.

I recently made the switch to signal like yourself.

Thought this may be of interest to you especially getting the family to move over.

https://www.makeuseof.com/signal-rolls-out-video-call-links/

[phenomlab]

@JAC @Madchatthew this is probably also useful - essentially, my views on usage

1. Privacy Concerns
   Data Sharing with Meta (Facebook): WhatsApp shares some user data with its parent company, Meta, which uses this information for targeted advertising across its platform. Although the messages are end-to-end encrypted, metadata like who you talk to, how often, and for how long can still be used to build a profile.
   Policy Changes: WhatsApp’s privacy policy has been updated multiple times, sparking concerns that future changes might further encroach on user privacy.
2. End-to-End Encryption Limitations
   Metadata Collection: While messages are encrypted, WhatsApp still collects metadata on user activity. This can potentially allow for profiling and activity tracking, albeit in a non-content-specific way.
   Backups: Messages backed up to cloud services (like Google Drive or iCloud) aren’t end-to-end encrypted by WhatsApp, meaning they are vulnerable to third-party access or hacking.
3. Lack of Customization and Features
   Feature Limitations: Competing apps such as Telegram and Signal offer more customization, like unique themes, larger group capacities, and more advanced media sharing.
   Restrictions on Group Size: WhatsApp group limits are smaller compared to alternatives like Telegram, which can host much larger communities.
4. Platform Monopolization and Dependency
   Heavy Market Influence: WhatsApp’s widespread usage can create a dependency on Meta’s ecosystem, reducing users’ exposure to more privacy-oriented platforms.
   Reduced Competition: This dominance limits market space for alternative messaging services, leading to fewer options and less innovation outside the Meta ecosystem.
5. Security Concerns
   Potential Vulnerabilities: Despite robust security measures, WhatsApp has experienced vulnerabilities and hacking incidents, which can be unsettling for security-focused users.
   Third-Party Integration Risks: WhatsApp’s growing integration with other Meta services raises concerns that security vulnerabilities from one platform could impact another.
6. Data Sovereignty
   Control Over Data: WhatsApp users don’t have full control over their data and cannot self-host as they could with other messaging solutions like Matrix or XMPP-based services.
7. Lack of Cross-Platform Support
   Device Limitations: WhatsApp has been slower to roll out multi-device support compared to competitors, limiting access across devices. Although it has now been expanded, it’s still limited compared to other apps like Telegram.
   Alternative Messaging Apps
   Signal: Highly regarded for its focus on privacy and transparency; it’s open-source and designed with minimal metadata collection.
   Telegram: Known for its features, such as large groups and extensive media options, although it’s not as privacy-focused as Signal.
   Matrix/Element: Decentralized, self-hostable, and offers excellent data control.

Ultimately, whether to keep using WhatsApp depends on your priorities for security, privacy, and functionality.

[Madchatthew]

@JAC Nice, that would be nice to have video calls encrypted.

@phenomlab nice thanks for that post.

Update - so far my wife is basically no i don’t want to install that and change apps if everyone else has to change to that app too. So it seems she pretty much doesn’t care about privacy.

My mom is the only one that has installed it and used it LOL - But her and my dad are all about privacy and such. It doesn’t do much good though if others don’t join it.

I do wish that signal would add sms and if someone switches to signal then it would use the secure feature. But that would probably go against what they are all about.

[phenomlab]

@Madchatthew said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

But her and my dad are all about privacy and such. It doesn’t do much good though if others don’t join it.

But even that statement itself is like a breath of fresh air. Typically the generation before are the most difficult to educate but it seems your parents are a step ahead of everyone else.

[phenomlab]

@Madchatthew said in Facebook fined for forcing users to agree to personalised ads:

I do wish that signal would add sms and if someone switches to signal then it would use the secure feature. But that would probably go against what they are all about.

Yes, same here. Perhaps one day…